Person Page - 1498

     Sir Thomas Greene Knt., of Boughton and Green's Norton, Northants married Jane Fogge, daughter of Sir John Fogge Knt.³

     Thomas Vaux KB, 2nd Baron Vaux of Harrowden was born on 25 April 1509.¹ He married Elizabeth Cheyne, daughter of Sir Thomas Cheyne Fen Ditton, Cambs, and Thenford and Irthlingborough, Northants and Anne Parr, between 25 April 1523 and 10 November 1523.¹

Thomas Vaux KB, 2nd Baron Vaux of Harrowden died in 1556.¹
     He was 2nd Baron Vaux of Harrowden.¹

; THOMAS VAUX, 2nd Baron Vaux of Harrowden, KB (1533); b 25 April 1509; allegedly educ Cambridge; Govr Jersey Jan 1525/6-July 1536, composed poetry, notably 'The Assault of Cupide' and 'The Aged Louer [Lover]', which were published in a collection amassed by Tottel, of Tottel's Miscellany fame, in 1557; m between 25 April and 10 Nov 1523 Elizabeth (d 20 Nov 1556), dau and heiress of Sir Thomas Cheyne, of Fen Ditton, Cambs, and Thenford and Irthlingborough, Northants, by his 2nd w Anne, dau of Sir William Parr, KG, and d 1556, having had an er son: WILLIAM VAUX, 3rd Baron Vaux of Harrowden.¹

     Elizabeth Cheyne married Thomas Vaux KB, 2nd Baron Vaux of Harrowden, son of Sir Nicholas Vaux Knt., 1st Lord Vaux of Harrowden and Anne Greene of Boughton and Green's Norton, Northants, between 25 April 1523 and 10 November 1523.¹

Elizabeth Cheyne died on 20 November 1556.¹

     Sir Thomas Cheyne Fen Ditton, Cambs, and Thenford and Irthlingborough, Northants married Anne Parr, daughter of Sir William Parr KG, of Kirkby-Kendal, Westmorland and Elizabeth Fitz Hugh,
; his 2nd wife.^1,2,5 Sir Thomas Cheyne Fen Ditton, Cambs, and Thenford and Irthlingborough, Northants married Elizabeth Hudleston
; his 1st wife.^6,2 Sir Thomas Cheyne Fen Ditton, Cambs, and Thenford and Irthlingborough, Northants was born circa 1449.²
Sir Thomas Cheyne Fen Ditton, Cambs, and Thenford and Irthlingborough, Northants died on 13 January 1514 at Titlingborough.²
      ; van de Pas cites: 1. Cahiers de Saint Louis , Dupont, Jacques and Saillot, Jacques, Reference: 930
2. A Genealogical History of the dormant, abeyant, forfeited and extinct peerages of the British Empire, London, 1866, Burke, Sir Bernard, Reference: 418.²

     Anne Parr married Sir Thomas Cheyne Fen Ditton, Cambs, and Thenford and Irthlingborough, Northants, son of Sir John Cheyne Knt., of Fen Ditton, Cambridgeshire and Elizabeth Rempston,
; his 2nd wife.^1,4,2
Anne Parr died after 4 November 1513.²
      ; van de Pas cites: 1. A Genealogical History of the dormant, abeyant, forfeited and extinct peerages of the British Empire, London, 1866, Burke, Sir Bernard, Reference: 418
2. Cahiers de Saint Louis , Dupont, Jacques and Saillot, Jacques, Reference: 930.²

     GAV-24 EDV-30 GKJ-25.

     GAV-25 EDV-31 GKJ-26.

     GAV-26 EDV-32 GKJ-27.¹

; WILLIAM de VERNON; ggf of RICHARD de VERNON.¹

     Warine de Vernon Baron of Shipbrooke married Margaret de Andeville, daughter of Ralph de Andeville.¹

      ; Warine, Baron of Shipbrooke; m Margaret, dau of Ralph de Andeville and widow of Hugh de Altaribus, and had, with a s (Warine, dsp), three daus (who after prolonged litigation with their maternal unc Ralph were obliged to give up to him half their patrimony.)¹ Warine de Vernon Baron of Shipbrooke was Baron of Shipbrooke.¹

     Warine de Vernon died; dsp.¹

     Margery de Vernon married Richard de Wilburgham
; had issue.²

     Edith de Vernon married Sir William Stafford.¹

     Rohesia de Vernon married John Littlebury.¹

     Sir William de Vernon married Margaret de Stockport, daughter of Sir Robert de Stockport, in 1230.¹

      ; William (Sir); Ch Justice Chester c 1231; m 1230 Margery (d 1239), dau of Sir Robert de Stockport, thus acquiring Appleby Parva, Leics.¹ Sir William de Vernon was Chief Justice of Chester circa 1231 at Cheshire, England.¹

     Richard de Vernon died after 1252.¹
      ; granted 1252 by HENRY III the Castle of the Peak, Derbys.¹

     Robert de Vernon died after 1260.¹
      ; Robert; exiled by HENRY III with his bro Richard for opposing the King in the Barons' Wars of the 1260s.¹

     GAV-24 GKJ-25.

Robert de Vernon of Nether Haddon lived at Haddon, Derbyshire, England.¹

; Robert, of Nether Haddon; had a dau and heiress.¹

     Hawise de Vernon married Gilbert le Fraunceys, son of Adam le Fraunceys, in 1257.¹

      ; A lot has appeared on these early Vernons, but most of it is not based on contemporary documentation. The following is the documented chronology I have been able to find.

1257 - Richard de Vernon and John le Fraunceys agree that Richard will give his niece Hawise, daughter of Robert de Vernon, in marriage to Gilbert, son of Adam le Fraunceys and nephew of John in marriage, John granting the couple land in Routhcliff or Meaburn, Richard granting them Pitchcott, Bucks.

1278 - Gilbert le Fraunceys has died. His son and heir (by his wife Hawise de Vernon) is son Richard le Fraunceys, aged 15. Subsequent to his father's death and without the King's permission, he is wed to Isabella de Harcla, daughter of Michael de Harcla.

We thus have:

1. Gilbert (son of Alan) le Fraunceys m. 1257 Hawise, daughter of Robert de Vernon, and eventual heiress of her uncle Richard de Vernon and grandmother Matilda.

2. Richard le Fraunceys/de Vernon b. ca. 1263, m. ca, 1278 Isabel de Harcla. He d. bef. 1331, his widow surviving to 1342.

most of the above come from three sources - VCH Bucks for Pitchcott, and an article and a correction by Frederick W. Ragg in Trans. Cumb. & West. A. & A. Soc., n.s. 12, pp. 312-394, and 16, pp. 167-8. The exception is the 1312 grant by Richard and Maud. This last I posted in 1995, and can no longer find the document on which it was based (a possibility is HMC Rutland).

From GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com 11 May 2003 by Todd A. Farmerie farmerie@interfold.com.²

; Hawise; m 1231 Gilbert le Franceys, s of Adam le Franceys, s of John le Franceys, of Meaburn, Cumberland.¹ GAV-23 GKJ-24.

     Gilbert le Fraunceys married Hawise de Vernon, daughter of Robert de Vernon of Nether Haddon, in 1257.¹

Gilbert le Fraunceys died circa 1278; A lot has appeared on these early Vernons, but most of it is not based on contemporary documentation. The following is the documented chronology I have been able to find.

1257 - Richard de Vernon and John le Fraunceys agree that Richard will give his niece Hawise, daughter of Robert de Vernon, in marriage to Gilbert, son of Adam le Fraunceys and nephew of John in marriage, John granting the couple land in Routhcliff or Meaburn, Richard granting them Pitchcott, Bucks.

1278 - Gilbert le Fraunceys has died. His son and heir (by his wife Hawise de Vernon) is son Richard le Fraunceys, aged 15. Subsequent to his father's death and without the King's permission, he is wed to Isabella de Harcla, daughter of Michael de Harcla.

We thus have:

1. Gilbert (son of Alan) le Fraunceys m. 1257 Hawise, daughter of Robert de Vernon, and eventual heiress of her uncle Richard de Vernon and grandmother Matilda.

2. Richard le Fraunceys/de Vernon b. ca. 1263, m. ca, 1278 Isabel de Harcla. He d. bef. 1331, his widow surviving to 1342.

most of the above come from three sources - VCH Bucks for Pitchcott, and an article and a correction by Frederick W. Ragg in Trans. Cumb. & West. A. & A. Soc., n.s. 12, pp. 312-394, and 16, pp. 167-8. The exception is the 1312 grant by Richard and Maud. This last I posted in 1995, and can no longer find the document on which it was based (a possibility is HMC Rutland).

From GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com 11 May 2003 by Todd A. Farmerie farmerie@interfold.com.²
     GAV-23 GKJ-24.

     GAV-24 GKJ-25.

     GAV-25 GKJ-26.

     Sir Richard de Vernon Sr. married Margaret de Vipont
; This marriage is listed in Burke's Peerage (Vernon Family Page), but others show Richard married to Isabel de Harcla.¹ Sir Richard de Vernon Sr. was born circa 1263; aged 15 at his father's death in 1278.⁴ He married Isabel de Harcla, daughter of Michael de Harcla and Joan fitz John, circa 1278.^3,5

Sir Richard de Vernon Sr. died before 1331.²
      ; Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote:

In Weiss' Magna Carta Sureties, 5th edn of 1999, p. x, it says of
Eustace Vesci that his "known issue extinct after 4th generation".

In that reliable volume Burke's "History of the Colonial Gentry", pub
1891-5, p. 197, there is this for Sir Richard de Vernon of Haddon,
Derbyshire:

"Sir Richard de Vernon, Knt. He m. 1st, Alienore, daughter of Giles
de Frenes, which lady d.s.p; and, 2ndly, Juliana, daughter of William
de Vescy (by Agnes, daughter of William de Ferrars, Earl of Derby), by
whom he acquired Harlaston. By her he had a son,
"Sir Richard de Vernon..."

These two Sir Richards even get a mention in CP, III, pp. 4-5 where the
latter is stated to have died, vp, before 3 Feb 1322/3. And the above
William de Vesci was undoubtedly son of Eustace de Vesci.

The archives show that this Vesci descent is still to be found in
current issues of Burke's Peerage.

The Vernons seem to have vast numbers of descendants.

Any views anyone? ("Harlaston" might give some clues; VCH?)

A lot has appeared on these early Vernons, but most of it is not based on contemporary documentation. The following is the documented chronology I have been able to find.

1257 - Richard de Vernon and John le Fraunceys agree that Richard will give his niece Hawise, daughter of Robert de Vernon, in marriage to Gilbert, son of Adam le Fraunceys and nephew of John in marriage, John granting the couple land in Routhcliff or Meaburn, Richard granting them Pitchcott, Bucks.

1278 - Gilbert le Fraunceys has died. His son and heir (by his wife Hawise de Vernon) is son Richard le Fraunceys, aged 15. Subsequent to his father's death and without the King's permission, he is wed to Isabella de Harcla, daughter of Michael de Harcla.

1282 - Richard de Vernon, son of Gilbert le Fraunceys holding Harlaston.

1290 - Richard granted to his son Richard, along with Eleanor, daughter of Giles Fines (presumably his fiance), the property of Pitchcott, Bucks. Two years later, it was granted to Giles during their minority.

1302 - before this date, Pitchcott has reverted to the father. In the same year, Richard and Isabel are involved in a fine with Michael de Harcla regarding Meaburn Mauld (Maud's Meaburn).

1310 - de Banco case indicates Richard de Vernon, son of Gilbert le Fraunceys by Hawise de Vernon, daughter of Robert de Vernon, son of Matilda disputes presentation to Pitchcott.

1312 - Richard de Vernon and wife Maud make a grant.

1314 - Richard le Fraunceys holding Meaburn

1323 - Maud, widow of son Richard sues the father for her dowery.

1324 - William de Freford, who with James and Henry de Harcla had been granted Meaburn and Newby to hold in trust for Isabel, wife of Richard de Vernon and her heirs, having grown tired of his charge, resigns from the trust, returning the land to Richard

1330 - William, grandson and heir of Richard succeeds. He is still a minor. Maud, widow of his father, and Isabel, widow of his grandfather, claim dower the next year.

1342 - Isabel de Vernon has suit regarding Meaburn

We thus have:

1. Gilbert (son of Alan) le Fraunceys m. 1257 Hawise, daughter of Robert de Vernon, and eventual heiress of her uncle Richard de Vernon and grandmother Matilda.

2. Richard le Fraunceys/de Vernon b. ca. 1263, m. ca, 1278 Isabel de Harcla. He d. bef. 1331, his widow surviving to 1342.

3. Richard de Vernon, engaged 1290, to Eleanor de Fenes, but unclear if they ever married. She d. bef. 1302, and he remarried bef. 1312, Maud (de Camville). He died bef. 1323, while she was still living in 1331.

4. William de Vernon, still a minor in 1331.


No you should note that this reconstruction indicates just three generations from Gilbert to William, where the reconstruction being followed above has five generations - it would have Richard marrying Eleanor then the Vescy heiress, with a son Richard who then married Maud. Certainly for this to be the case, there would have to be two successive Richards married to Isabels - the first marrying Isabel de Harcla, the second being the widow of William de Vernon's grandfather (and hence a third marriage, after Eleanor de Fines and the Vescy bride). This would make the chronology quite tight, however, and there appears to be a continuity in the records suggesting that there is just one Isabel.

Before going on, I should say that most of the above come from three sources - VCH Bucks for Pitchcott, and an article and a correction by Frederick W. Ragg in Trans. Cumb. & West. A. & A. Soc., n.s. 12, pp. 312-394, and 16, pp. 167-8. The exception is the 1312 grant by Richard and Maud. This last I posted in 1995, and can no longer find the document on which it was based (a possibility is HMC Rutland). Unfortunately this is the most important source in refuting the Vescy connection, since if they were married by that point (1312), then there is barely room for a third marriage, between Eleanor de Fenes and Maud de Camville to still be mother of William (still minor in 1331).

My gut impression from this is that the Vescy marriage has been inappropriately placed here. Certainly the claim that Harlaston came from that marriage is inaccurate, as it can be traced in the Vernons much earlier. One possibility is that it has been placed in the wrong generation - William de Vernon, #4 above, has no known wife, and it is at least possible that it is in that generation that a Vescy marriage belongs. It is also possible that there was no Vescy marriage.

taf.²

; Richard (Sir); took name VERNON by 1252; m Margaret de Vipont.¹ Sir Richard de Vernon Sr. was also known as Sir Richard le Fraunceys.¹ GAV-22 GKJ-22.